Jungian Psychology
Don't skip over this post just because the title might sound boring to you.
I bought this book last night that's an intro to Carl Jung's theories of psychoanalysis. I stayed up until about 2 A.M. reading it. I was hoping I would have a lot of weird dreams last night that I could analyze. I didn't. But I've been analyzing everything (even more than I usually do) using some of his theories. I mean, I just bought this new album of Robert Stillman's and it's completely instrumental. (Good stuff, by the way.) At point during listening to it, I literally thought, "Hmm, I hear a Shadow there. Interesting." (The Shadow is one of the recurring archetypes that Jung defined.)
I read about dream analysis, something I've always been really interested in, and one part really stuck out. I ALWAYS have dreams about rock stars. Eddie Vedder, Sufjan Stevens, you name it. It said that we make these people "gods". This totally fits, as I have dreamt about these "gods" at points in my life when I was really craving and seeking out a personal relationship with God (the Big One). At these times in my life, I was focusing a lot of my time and energy trying to cultivate an honest, compassionate relationship with God. And that is usually what I gained in my relationships with these rock stars in my dreams. See, interesting, right?
So to continue the theme here, do you guys have any one dream that really stands out to you? Or if not, you could just answer this: what celebrity do you want to dream about? :) Because that's always fun to think about, right?
I bought this book last night that's an intro to Carl Jung's theories of psychoanalysis. I stayed up until about 2 A.M. reading it. I was hoping I would have a lot of weird dreams last night that I could analyze. I didn't. But I've been analyzing everything (even more than I usually do) using some of his theories. I mean, I just bought this new album of Robert Stillman's and it's completely instrumental. (Good stuff, by the way.) At point during listening to it, I literally thought, "Hmm, I hear a Shadow there. Interesting." (The Shadow is one of the recurring archetypes that Jung defined.)
I read about dream analysis, something I've always been really interested in, and one part really stuck out. I ALWAYS have dreams about rock stars. Eddie Vedder, Sufjan Stevens, you name it. It said that we make these people "gods". This totally fits, as I have dreamt about these "gods" at points in my life when I was really craving and seeking out a personal relationship with God (the Big One). At these times in my life, I was focusing a lot of my time and energy trying to cultivate an honest, compassionate relationship with God. And that is usually what I gained in my relationships with these rock stars in my dreams. See, interesting, right?
So to continue the theme here, do you guys have any one dream that really stands out to you? Or if not, you could just answer this: what celebrity do you want to dream about? :) Because that's always fun to think about, right?
posted by Lauren | 2:22 PM
31 Comments:
lauren, interesting that you've been into him. so has my father, jung's ideas have greatly influenced his latest pieces of art. various levelf of concious thought and what not.
i don't have celebrities about rock stars that often, mine are usually about girls in my life, and then my attraction to them is intensified for a couple of days.
i wonder what that means
*dreams about rock stars...
I know who I want to dream about, and he's NOT a celebrity. Actually, my whole life I've had recurring dreams of someone trying to kill me. They usually try to stab me, and it's usually in a place where, in reality, I feel very safe -- a church, my house. Analyze THAT!
Well, according to Freud's theories (which I don't really know that much about) a knife is a phallic symbol. Actually, I have this book of dream symbols and it says that a dream about a knife, in the case of women means "the desire for total abandon." And I'm quoting that.
And Mr. Clark:
It probably depends on what those girls are doing in your dreams...
In general, it refers to your emotional side or acts as an emotional teacher.
Again, theory.
I sometimes have dreams that people are strangling me. They start out looking like normal human beings, but then some *other* nature of theirs' is revealed to me as they attack.
I think there are many obvious interpretations, but I'd be interested to hear a specifically Jungian one.
Ian: The dream book says "something (or someone) is denying you the air to breathe." (Really?!?) But I'm going to have to say that the morphing of the person probably signifies your lack of trust and skepticism towards that person. That YOU are afraid there is a side to them that might hurt you. That's pretty obvious but, you know, I'm no Jung. Yet.
Ian, here's more. This is good.
Neck: symbolizes the union of mind/mental and body/physical. If your neck is injured, it could indicate a separation between heart and mind.
I got that from this website.
www.dreammoods.com
(Don't know how Jungian that is, but I tried.)
Stand out dream... that would have to be the dream I had the night after I read the Human Rights Watch report on Rwanda, yep, I dreamed I was being tortured. It literally gives me shivers thinking about it. I also had a dream that I swallowed Dabu, a Nepalese exchange student at my boarding school, so I was sort of stretched around him like my iPod skin and then I was suddenly attracted to this really contemptible guy at school. That was disturbing. I don't think I want that one analyzed. I also have the Mr. Clark dreams about blokes I know, then I fancy them for a couple days and then it wears off. Those are just an annoyance. Oh and I recently dreamed I was Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise was my fiance. Help!
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It seems like everything is phallic to Freud, so I'm taking that with a grain of salt . . . However, maybe I DO have a desire for total abandon. Or maybe, it means that I'm totally scared out of my mind of pretty much everything in life. And especially getting murdered. Or maybe, it's my OCD kickin' in -- a common obsession is to visualize violent thoughts. Or maybe, I was murdered in a past life. Or maybe, I'm psychic and I can see into the future. And I can see that I'm going to get murdered. Or maybe . . .
Phooey. All this dream stuff. There are so many interpretations. The desire for total abandon IS pretty good, though. I wouldn't say I have a desire for TOTAL abandon. I mean, sometimes I want to yell out loud in the middle of church, but that's not TOTAL abandon. Total abandon would be like if I went to NYC, abused drugs, and sold myself -- and drugs -- on the street. Or maybe it would be like if I tried to get people to adopt anarchy. Yeah, that would be total abandon. So maybe the dream book should have just said, "You have a desire to lose a bit of inhibitions." Then again, why would it be in the form of murder dream? Yeah, I get it -- the knife/phallic symbol. Whatever. But to me, sex is not total abandon. (See TOTAL abandon discourse above.)
Well, Sara, before I looked up what your dream meant in my book, I thought, "Hmm, I think it's a fear of sex." And you're relating sex to places where you feel safe, i.e. marriage. Though you know it's a controlled environment (marriage), you're still scared of it (for the obvious reasons. Should I get specific? Nah.). Who are you being stabbed by? Did you run away?
And I know you very well and maybe what I already know about you is swaying the meaning, too.
It's not phooey. Even if you don't believe in it, why do we have dreams? It's not just residue from the day. It's stuff that's buried. It's catharsis. Dream interpretation is biblical. And I think sometimes dreams are illustrations of lessons that God wants to show an otherwise stubborn person.
Sara, I think, too, that it's referring to TOTAL emotional abandon.
And G, my interpretation of your dreams is that you should probably experience some total abandon of your own...if you know what I mean. Especially the iPod guy. Or maybe you shouldn't eat beans before you go to bed. :)
That's a good point about dreams being biblical. I think there's something to dreams. Really, I do. I don't think they're complete phooey, but I DO think people take dream analysis too far sometimes.
And by the way, I don't have a fear of sex, I just don't want to do it. I feel strange typing this because I think it's too personal, but I think it illustrates a good point. I think people need to be EXTREMELY careful with dream analysis. On one hand, I don't think people should analyze their own dreams too much. But I also think that getting someone else to analyze your dreams -- even a professional -- can be just as tricky. Freud would have me all figured out, right? He would say that it's a dream about me having a fear of sex. But I know how I feel on the topic, and I would say that without a doubt, he is wrong. And not because I'm embarrassed and not because I think it's gross. But because I know myself well enough to call the shots -- to analyze my life just enough. I mean, it's one thing to look at dreams as representations of underlying emotions, but it's quite another to look at them as signs from God. And I think you're right; I think sometimes God gets through to people with dreams. But I'm also saying that I'm not trusting anyone but the Holy Ghost to reveal to me what the interpretations of those dreams are.
Hmm, good point. Well said. We'll have to talk about this in person, because I don't want to get too personal about the "fear of sex" thing on here. I'm not going to argue about whether or not your scared of sex. That's your deal. But when did you have that dream? Recently?
When I was a kid I had a dream that I was in a huge corridor in a crowd of people that lined either side of the space. There was a gap between the two sides and people were being led down the middle of the line by others who flanked them and preceded them. We were all dressed in white. I was at the front, close enough to feel the breeze from their passage. The figures being led out were bound somehow, as though with invisible/figurative chains. They weren't prisoners per se, and they weren't being led to their execution; it was as though they were being led into exile.
One of them turned and looked up at me. He had long, blonde hair. When his gaze met mine, his face became a mask of rage and loathing; I have never seen nor experienced the level of anger or violent hatred which came at me from that figure. His face was suddenly like a twisted, photographic negative radiating a searing cold. The horror of it overwhelmed me and I stumbled backwards into the crowd; I was wearing black then I think. I awoke with the following impression, clear as day: "WE REMEMBER YOU."
Now THIS I'd like the interpretation of. ;)
Yeesh. I got nothin'.
I do wonder, though, if it was childhood wonder at what went on in an LDS temple...but the angry guy -- I can only guess.
That kind of reminds me of a dream I had when I was about 5 or 6.
I was in this really old country church like one you'd see somewhere in Europe. It was made completely of rock (slate) and it had huge cedar beams. (I could smell the cedar. I recognized the smell from this cedar chest my grandma had.) I was on the floor, looking up at the ceiling and the beams, and then I was sitting on one of the beams looking down. I was really happy and content. Then one of my uncles was sitting beside me on the beam and we were laughing. Then he changed into this demon (that did not look like your typical demon -- it was very animal-like, furry) was sitting beside me, laughing. I threw myself down off the rafter and killed myself rather than being close to the demon.
It was the first of probably 15 or 20 (very real) "martyrdom" dreams. I've had those, in different forms, since then. (Especially when I was in high school.)
Does anybody else want to pretend to be Carl Jung and decipher that one?
I don't know if this interpretation is Jungian or Freudian, but I'd say that dream reflects a fear of betrayal from those close to you, and a desire to avoid being hurt by such a betrayal at any price.
Are there any other common elements to your "martyrdom" dreams? That one was really, really interesting by the way! The demon-uncle description sort of reminded me of that "My Pet Monster" toy from back in the 80's.
I knew nothing about the Temple then. I didn't know jack until I actually went through the one in Oakland when I was 20, since I sort of raised and educated myself.
Maybe a fixation on dream interpretation shows there's a lack of analyzing your daily conscience hours or fear of living in "real-time." To a certain degree it could be an obsession to try and put a specific meaning to every image in a dream. It can be dangerous to one's mental sanity to put a specific meaning on many things in life--did I meet that boy because...and then you just go crazy trying to fulfill the interpretation you might have incorrectly made about meeting someone, etc.
Dreams definitely can reveal what you're worrying about, but I don't think everything always has a hidden, underlying, symbolic meaning. Who says Freud is the end all of dream analysis anyway? He definitely had some strange ideas that quietly get pushed to the side. He contributed to the study of the mind, but there's much more to be learned than what currently exists. What, then, does it mean if you don't have dreams/remember them? You haven't fully reached the REM state, you're self absorbed, depressed, shutting out the cosmic forces, or you're secretly in love with your mother? What the?!?
And who writes these "dream books" anyway? I bet if you researched who wrote that dream analysis book of yours, you'll probably find it was written by some cat lady living on the fourth floor of a walk-up building who thinks people are spying on her from the 6th floor. I'm kidding, I'm not discounting psychoanalysis, all I'm saying is you might reconsider who you're taking advice from. I agree with Sara on the Holy Ghost thing. There's a point where you have to stop guessing, talking, interpreting, analyzing, and let God help you discover what things mean/why you met that cute boy....I mean... :o)
oops-- conscious. Spelling isn't my forte (or psychology for that matter).
Is there anybody who doesn't love Lexia? Honestly.
Most dream books are written by arm-chair Freudians, casual Jungians, or people who've syncretized the two approaches. Hermeneutics isn't exactly the watchword when it comes to dream analysis. But it's a fun topic for discussion, and analyzing things is what the liberal arts are all about!
Besides, the Bible clearly indicates that interpretation of dreams is a spiritual gift which is not universally possessed. ;) Boy, it would've been fun to hear the modern interpretations of the monumental Biblical dreams had they been had today!
Uh-oh. The Snow sisters are tag-teaming me.
"Maybe a fixation on dream interpretation shows there's a lack of analyzing your daily conscience hours or fear of living in 'real-time.'" Is that a subtle insult? Thanks. I think I do plenty of analyzing in "real-time" -- probably too much.
I agree that it all has to be taken with a grain of salt. I completely agree. Most of this has been in jest. But I do think that sometimes, for people that really bottle up their emotions (yeah, we all know who I'm referring to.), dreams can act as a release.
And I disagree with a lot (if not most) of Freud's ideas and theories on sexuality. (Which is, by the way, why Freud and Jung "broke-up". Jung didn't think that everything was as sexually-driven as Freud did. He thought there were a lot of varying motivations.) I don't think that Freud still is considered the "end all" of anything, though the whole layers of the conscious thing has definitely taken root.
CONSCIOUS! Don't quote my misspelled word!!! It makes my intellectual argument look stupid. No I wasn't insulting you. I was just insulting a large group of people...that's all. I love you, Lauren. You know it. I probably should mention I finished reading "Intimate Connections" by Dr. David D. Burns. Word to the wise, it's heavy stuff--almost its own genre. Way intense. Read it and think of Jason Schwartzman. :o)
Ian:
I'm all for analyzing. I think analyzing is really "cool." I do it all the time--analyze that is. I'm analyzing this whole 24 post conversation. What could possibly happen next? I have my suspicions.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing happened. Your suspicions were unfounded!
And now this is a 25-post thread! Viva spite!
HA. 26.
It amazes me that someone as social and popular as Lexia would read a book like that.
Yeah, she suggested I read it. I probably should.
The tears of the clown, Ian. The tears of a clown. (I'm only saying that 'cause Lexia says that all of the time about herself.)
I heard negative things about that book from many credible people. Largely that it's a shallow book which teaches people how to attract, relate to and be shallow people. Other equally credible people have said it's eye-opening and really helpful. It would be interesting to hear what the two of you take away from it, since you are both intelligent people...Now that would be a worthy post/dialogue!
Brigham loaned me the book because it was in "Shop Girl." I did read the entire book from front to back, though. There are a few gems I took away from it. However, most of the time I spent reading it I was thinking, "wow, this doctor actually published a book. If he can do it, I can." Like I said, there are a few good pieces of advice worthy to be called epiphany moments, but I was mostly joking when recommending the book. I would recommend "A History of Psychology: Main Currents in Psychological Thought" by Thomas Hardy Leahey if you want to learn more about, well, psychological thought.
Ian: Popular?!? I did grab the "most friendly" superlative in high school. For the record, I totally get lonely. :o)
Lauren: HELLO!!! My tears of a clown parallel is supposed to be on the D.L.!!! Seriously, the lyrics of Smokey Robinson's song "The Tracks of My Tears" are amazing. "People say I'm the life of the party 'cause I tell a joke or two. Although I might be laughing loud and hearty, deep inside I'm blue." Genius. Man, Smokey was intense. Hello world. My name is Lexia. I cry too.
The best books I've read on psychology or related fields have probably been "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat" by Oliver Sacks, and "Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain" by Antonio Damasio.
That's a great song. Nobody does it better than Smokey! I always liked Bonnie 'Prince' Billy's "I See A Darkness."
"Well you know I have a love / a love for everyone I know / and you know I have a drive / to live I won't let go / but can you see its opposition / comes a-rising up sometimes / that it's dreadful anti-position / comes blacking in my mind..."
Good stuff. Goes down smooth.
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